I was in the faith movement churches from 1977 to 1982. I loved it. Faith is one of my favorite subjects. But in 1979, God gave me a terrifying dream and by that God brought me out of that church group. This is the story of that which God showed me about the Faith Movement.
I love scripture. I love the Word of God by the Holy Spirit. Nothing is more exciting to me and nothing is as valuable to me on this present earth as is following God by HIS Spirit.
In 1975, I was born again. Immediately God began teaching me to meditate on scripture and to do those instructions of specific scriptures!
And God had taught me from the time I was born again to ask HIM for wisdom.
James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
I was applying the above scripture to everything in my life ... and it worked greatly.
* When I read the Bible, I prayed for wisdom before reading and God was faithful to teaching me scriptures as I read. (I even wrote: "Pray for wisdom", on each book of the Bible so I wouldn't forget to do this.)
* I owned a small business in Dallas, and I was careful to pray for wisdom before I bought merchandise and in running the business and making decisions. (In the 4 years that I had the business after becoming a Christian and after learning to pray for wisdom, every item I bought for the business sold, and I never had a sale price to rid myself of unwanted items for everything sold.)
And God taught me the following scripture:
John 5:30 Jesus said: I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
I was quite sure that if Jesus, the Son of God, could do nothing without hearing from God, The Father, that I would not be able to do anything without hearing from God! So I prayed for wisdom and prayed for God to stop me if I was going the wrong way.
I really thought that is what all Christians were doing. I was wrong.
At one point, our Bible teacher at Word of Faith said to me, "You were never like the people at Word of Faith. They talked about faith but you lived faith."
On this Podcast, I will share some of those things God taught me about the Faith Movement churches.
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The poison gas dream: 1979
I was asleep in the night when God gave me the following dream.
I went into a room where a man was speaking to a group of people. I sat down and began to listen.
A second man rushed in and said, "Stop ... It's too late ... Can't you see? ... It's already begun."
He disappeared and the first man resumed speaking.
No one in the room showed any interest at all in seeing "what had already begun."
But I was interested so I looked out the windows and was very shocked at that which I saw when I looked.
There was a tall pole with a yellow civil-defense type speaker on top of the pole.
Out of the speaker a poisonous gas was coming and it was coming directly toward those of us sitting in that room. I knew it would kill us.
(The speaker that was supposed to warn us was being used to kill us.)
I looked at the man who was sitting next to me. He had a big grin on his face and he was staring directly at the man speaking and he seemed to be paying attention. But then I saw this man was a corpse. He was already dead.
Then I looked at the other people sitting in the room. They, too, were already dead.
And as I sat there among them, I began to feel drowsy and I knew the gas coming from the speaker was killing me also as I sat there.
I had no idea what this dream meant.
But in 1982, God showed me the meaning of this dream.
I went to church at Word of Faith on a Wednesday night. Our pastor, Robert Tilton, was speaking. I looked at the man who was sitting next to me and was very shocked to see this man was the dead man in the poison gas dream. I looked around the room and the other people in the congregation seemed to be the people in that dream.
I got up immediately and went into the ladies room and began praying. I said to God: "I believe YOU are showing me to leave this church so I am going to get in my car and drive away. But if YOU want me to come back to this church, I will."
God did not want me to come back to this church group and with that God began to show me problems with the Faith Movement.
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The problems:
* No one talked about the will of God. We were supposed to find a scripture to "claim" over that which we wanted and quote that scripture and "believe" by faith in that scripture and we would get that which we believed.
One of the founders of the movement was a man named Kenneth Hagin.
He based his doctrines upon the following scripture:
Mark 11:22-24
22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
The above scripture is of course correct.
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I wanted to marry. I found the following scripture to "claim". I wrote this scripture in the front of my Bible and every day I claimed that scripture for several years.
Isaiah 34:16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for MY mouth it hath commanded, and HIS spirit it hath gathered them.
The prayer group which I attended "agreed" with me and prayed for me to marry.
One woman in the prayer group said, "Of course it has to be the will of God for Joan to marry." Then she went on to say, "But of course it is the will of God."
My best friend heard a word from God. "MY grace is sufficient for her."
She told me. I didn't want to hear that.
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Concerning the will of God when we pray:
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* Another thing we were being taught in that Faith Movement church is that all good is from God and all bad is from the devil and that we had "authority" over the devil and could stop any harm that tried to come to our family or our property.
This taught us to "exercise our authority" as believers and stand against the devil.
The problems:
This assumes that we are capable of knowing what is "good".
The devil said to Eve: And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
People want to be "as gods", thus controlling their own lives without calling on God!
This is antichrist:
II Thessalonians 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day (of the Lord) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
The will of God in the matter at hand is not considered when you are "as Gods."
Now, 40-years later, I am delighted to trust in God, knowing that God knows that which is best for me and God will show me what to do in this present life and choose for me!
(I really trust in God more than I do in myself! I would hate to try to decide on my own what I should do.)
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Another major problem with the doctrine that all good is from God and all bad is from the devil:
We would consider an earthquake to be bad because it destroys property and kills people.
But here is what God showed me.
50 Jesus, when HE had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept (were dead) arose, 53 And came out of the graves after HIS resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Because of the earthquake, the centurion and the men with him believed in Jesus.
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After God brought me out of the Faith Movement church in 1982, God showed me a significant point. I was taught by God to pay attention to that which was brought to my mind by HIS Spirit, whether scripture or concepts. Basically I was being taught by God to meditate on that WORD given to me by HIS Spirit and to follow the instructions of that Word.
I didn't realize what I was doing was different from what we were being taught in the Faith Movement.
Robert Tilton was pastor of Word of Faith which I attended between the years 1977 and 1982.
Bob was teaching the following concept: "If you want a red pickup truck, then cut out a picture of that pickup and put it on your refrigerator door where you will see it several times a day. In time God will enable you to figure a way to get that pickup."
(I never heard any one at Word of Faith mention seeking the will of God. We were taught to take authority by scriptures over everything in this life and claim scripture.)
Also we were taught that we have authority over the devil and the devil could not touch us or our family or our property if we stood against the devil.
If you failed, you were taught you had weak faith.
During the time I was at Word of Faith church, a hurricane hit in the Houston area of Texas. (I lived in Dallas.) I wondered why some of those great men of faith, such as Robert Tilton and Kenneth Copeland, didn't take authority over the devil and stop the damage and death caused by that hurricane.
We were being taught "all good is from God and all bad is from devil."
Sometime during that period, I came across the following scripture in the Bible:
Isaiah 45:6-7 I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
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And in the Bible, through the coming years, I saw the following scriptures concerning "good and evil" and that which God will do.
God says:
Isaiah 30:30 And the LORD shall cause HIS glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of HIS arm, with the indignation of HIS anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.
Ezekiel 13:13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in MY fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in Mine anger, and great hailstones in My fury to consume it.
Ezekiel 38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
(God does as HE wills. We do not have control over the weather. It is of God.)
Isaiah 45:6-7 I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Exodus 10:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these MY signs before him:
Exodus 11:10 And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.
II Thessalonians 2:10-12 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Romans 1:25-27 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Romans 1:28-32 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Jesus speaking to the church at Sardis:
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